And so that allows an alignment with power that is very specific to gayness, to whiteness and maleness. And that was really shocking to the right. When you talk about coming out as queer, what was your trajectory of your understanding of your own identity? And we-sue along with a number of other people to try to stop the ban from going into effect in the summer of 2017. CHRIS HAYES: Right? CHRIS HAYES: Oh, they want to roll back the Price Waterhouse precedent. And like, "Tank tops and not sweaters, then I'm firing you." And then, sometimes people say, "Oh, I have a penis." Support the journalists that have been fighting back against dangerous disinformation since day one: Subscribe to Truthout’s daily newsletter and never miss a story. I only have one life. And those documented rates are directly tied to discrimination that people face in every aspect of life. And in fact, trans people and LGB people more recently have been experiencing quite a bit of favorable rulings in the lower courts for a long time under the Price Waterhouse "sex stereotyping is prohibited.". And I think this is how we end up reifying these categories as well, through the doubt of the listener. It's as much about the way that categories work. So it's not a straight 5-4 sort of majority decision as to the reasoning, but held that that was impermissible sex discrimination under Title VII. CHRIS HAYES: Chase Strangio is a lawyer at the ACLU, a member of the legal team that is representing Aimee Stephens before the Supreme Court this October. Isn't it the case that life involves trade-offs, and politics involves trade-offs, just inescapably? So, I went to college in a similar period and a lot of exposure to post-modernism and Foucault and Judith Butler, whose work at the time seemed impenetrable and recondite and now is one of the most influential paradigms in our world. That failed at the time in the Republican-controlled House. CHRIS HAYES: You talked about “Boys Don't Cry,” and two things are striking me. If passed, House Bill 1057 would make it a felony for doctors to provide anyone under the age of 16 with puberty blockers, hormones and other transition-related healthcare. And so it wasn't until later in the 2000s that I started to realize that we don't have to rely on binary so much. She specifically noted that the bill interferes with the parental right to dictate the healthcare for their minor children, which is a long-standing fundamental right. CHRIS HAYES: Yes. CHASE STRANGIO: So it's all of that. CHRIS HAYES: Did you grow up in a conservative household? And one of the things that happened was that at the end of Obama's second term, you started to see a lot of regulatory changes that allowed for inclusion of trans people quite explicitly in a host of contexts, including in schools and the military, in the context of the Affordable Care Act and accessing healthcare. AMY GOODMAN: I want to bring Yance Ford into this conversation, who is also here in Park City, Utah. And we have the EEOC, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, under Obama had taken the explicit position as well that Title VII prohibits per se discrimination based on sexual orientation and transgender status. They're just things out there in the world like atoms. I’ll also be speaking 2:00 on Friday here in Park City at the Park City Museum right next to Dolly’s Bookstore. Not trying to be." CHASE STRANGIO: People glue bows on their bald babies to make sure everyone genders them correctly, so for me, I think one of the things I say a lot is in my home, we talk about bodies and behaviors as not falling within a binary, so as much as you would say girls can be anything, I would say any body part can be on a girl, and any body part can be on a boy, because it simply wouldn't work in my house to say something else because my body doesn't look like a typical boy's body or a typical girl's body, so my kid understands me as her father, and I am her father, and I don't look like the boys that she knows to be boys and those genital characteristics, so her conception of the world is that there are these categories, they exist, they are absurd in her mind in a lot of ways, and you just claim that which works for you. CHASE STRANGIO: It's the first. CHASE STRANGIO: Yeah, so the ACLU is representing Aimee Stephens. But I think we started to become more visible in public discourse and popular culture in sort of the 2010s. Still shouldn't discriminate. Her entire life becomes precarious. So, these are the overlapping sights of power, so the same trans bodies are- they are agents in their own right, I don't mean to say that, and I think if you talked to either of them, they would acknowledge this, that there is something about their privilege and how their gender and their bodies are seen and understood that is a vehicle in the courtroom and a vehicle on the television. CHRIS HAYES: But it is the case. They're dangerous." You didn't have as an available identity, in a sort of coherent sense the notion of being trans, when you were in college and you were sort of embedded in queer theory and thinking about all these things. CHASE STRANGIO: No, no, no. Where did you go to college? We can see that as parents with our children. And those bills, like so many bills we’ve seen in the past, are fundamentally connected to controlling the bodies of all people. That categories make sense in some sort of deep and satisfying way, and we think of gender of being that, that gender cuts the world at its joints, that binary is as old as time, and languages have two genders in the way they have adjectives, and this is just a universal truth about the universe. And they deal all with employment, and the central question is whether Title VII, which is the federal law that prohibits discrimination because of sex, encompasses discrimination against someone because that person is lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender. It distributes harms. If you ask anyone that, they'll say, "Well, I just know.". It’s the third bill targeting trans youth introduced in South Dakota this year alone and one of more than 25 anti-LGBTQ bills introduced around the country. REP. FRED DEUTSCH: It’s a bill to help, like I said, with these children that are suffering. But if I walked in to Congress in 1964 and said, "Where's the bathroom?" And so, then when you aren't believed, then the more you're challenged, the harder it is to explain. And this year, South Dakota has a bill that will actually criminalize lifesaving care for trans young people. CHASE STRANGIO: Yeah. So this is an opportunity for the Justice Department to not just make a big anti-LGBTQ announcement, which they're perfectly comfortable doing and have done in a host of contexts, but to really ask the Supreme Court to fundamentally alter the state of sex discrimination law in ways that are going to transform not just employment but education protections, housing protections, credit protections. CHRIS HAYES: I remember being amazed that that failed. CHRIS HAYES: Right. That was a whole thing that the argument about gay rights was so tied from, "I didn't choose this, ergo you can't discriminate against us." And so I was clearly not fem, but I was also clearly not butch. And I believe that, and I think that different people in different lanes think that they can take over other lanes with-, CHRIS HAYES: ... Or like to offer advice. To me, it speaks to the fact that there is something fundamentally, and I'm saying this in a good way. It was just so outside of the paradigm. Our reporters in Washington, DC and around the country are preparing to cover the protests, the disruptions, the pushback and the potential far-right violence — and are zeroing in on the battles for electoral justice that will no doubt ensue. We didn't do this to you. its “Pick of the Podcasts,” along with NBC’s “Meet the Press.”. But that's a key, conceptual way of sort of thinking about the challenge, from a social justice perspective, of trans equality in this moment. Let's see the consequences and lay them out so we can understand them.". I think the choice that I have personally made is to say, "I recognize that every intervention within this system is always going to be harmful in some way. Barriers against legal name changes take a heavy toll on criminalized transgender people both in and out of prison. And so, we have lawmakers equipped with information about how young people can either live or die, and they are choosing, quite clearly, the path of increasing the likelihood that our communities suffer serious harm, including early death. Yeah. If passed, House Bill 1057 would make it a felony for doctors to provide anyone under the age of 16 with puberty blockers, hormones and other transition-related healthcare. I mean, it sounds so similar to arguments made against abortion, legislators trying to say that it’s the abortion that will endanger a woman’s life, as opposed to a backstreet alley abortion. And so that is very much part of the constitutional paradigm and you can really see that becoming more and more reinforced the more that the mainstream lesbian and gay rights movement, in particular, exclusive of bisexual and transgender people, was turning towards legal recognition and really assimilationist in construct. I'm trying to make you less tortured about your work. And of course, the legacy of white supremacy is unique in that there's nothing like anti-black racism in the United States. That's the whole question. — the pause that would allow for puberty to kick in, and, quote-unquote, “solve some children’s gender dysphoria.” It was like — it was like tuning into a broadcast from Mars, where the crazy people had taken charge of the Legislature and were, all of a sudden, doctors and psychiatrists and endocrinologists and knew better than the hundred years of collected medicalism alone, in addition to the parents in the room. For example, some of these bills talk about how if any girl is “disputed” as a girl, they have to bring in medical documentation of their internal and external reproductive organs, their chromosomes and their naturally occurring hormone levels. CHASE STRANGIO: If you turn to the legal system. Arizona has a few bills pending. We intervened on her behalf after the election out of concern that the EEOC would no longer defend the interests of Aimee. CHASE STRANGIO: I mean, I am someone who's like I love consuming popular culture, so like I said, I was looking for it, so I like it, I think representation is incredibly powerful.
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